Ep. 24: Rubber Chicken Slinky: D.B. Cooper

Speaker A: Hello.
Speaker B: Oh, hi.
Speaker A: I'm Emma. Um, I'm Shannon, and welcome to this podcast doesn't exist. OOH, I liked that.
Speaker B: Thanks.
Speaker A: We're in the same room this time. You guys. Guys, we're not in a closet. I've been taking a tour around my family's closets. I don't think I'm going to need to for any of the other Darn recording so I can't test out my brother's.
Speaker B: We'll save it for another special occasion, I suppose. I do feel like we are having a very formal business dinner.
Speaker A: I'm very far away from you. Like the Von Trapp children.
Speaker B: Yes. Um, one of us is a traveler that's been caught in a storm and has to stop at a Gothic castle or estate. It's Indiana Joe, and it's just like, please join me for dinner. And you're literally, like, 20ft away. Not Frankenstein, but in this scenario. But, uh, we're trying a new recording set up.
Speaker A: I have completely disheveled this room.
Speaker B: It's fine. It wasn't very aesthetically purposeful anyway.
Speaker A: No, it's utilitarian.
Speaker B: At least it's something.
Speaker A: You have pillows.
Speaker B: It's a mess is what it is.
Speaker A: It's fine. Well, before we get into it, I will say that this episode was suggested by one of my new friends. Hi, Christian. Um, he suggested that I look into this mystery, and so I decided to not only look into it, but to do it. If you have any suggestions of your own, please send them to us at this podcast doesn't exist@gmail.com. Uh, we would love to hear your suggestions, your ghost stories. I would like to hear your ghost stories. Shannon would rather not, but if you've got some alien mysteries, your diner order, whatever you want to send us, we want to read, because we want to do a mailbag again. We haven't been able to do a mailbag in a little while, so feel free. Just talk to us, please. I'm lonely. Was it too far?
Speaker B: It's a little desperate. A little bit. Also, why are you lonely?
Speaker A: I'm not.
Speaker B: Miles is going to be offended. He's at the damn right now listening to this, and he's like, I'm literally going to go upstairs to my wife. Why is she lonely?
Speaker A: Maybe I'm not actually lonely. It just felt appropriate in the moment to say it felt like something that would fit within what I was saying.
Speaker B: We're just going to let that happen?
Speaker A: It might keep it rolling.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, it might not even make it in. We'll see that's because I have the power of editing on my side.
Speaker B: Well, if you would like to view any of the photos from today's, there are a lot. Or if you have suggestions and you'd rather DM us instead of email, that's cool. You can find us on Instagram at this podcast. Doesn't exist. Uh, we have a link in our bio there that will take you to our link tree. You can download our bingo card and play along. You can access the podcast on all sorts of different platforms, so it's a helpful little link if you're trying to share with family, friends, enemies, et cetera.
Speaker A: She said enemies, you guys.
Speaker B: It's just part of the branch. Yes.
Speaker A: Let me haunt people while I'm alive.
Speaker B: Okay, I will say we've been slacking on put it on the merch.
Speaker A: That's your realm.
Speaker B: Um, I know, but I guess I've just been so invested.
Speaker A: I'm really glad, though. Well, last time you were scared, but, yes, you have been invested.
Speaker B: That's true. That's true. But anyway, you can find all of that on our Instagram. Come and follow us. Like our photos. Comment uh, if you find any cool episode related stuff out in the wild, shout out to Jesse. Jesse's m awesome with that. They always, uh, tag us when they find related stuff. We appreciate it.
Speaker A: We love it.
Speaker B: Uh, and for the record, Christian, I'm waving to you. All right, what's going on now?
Speaker A: All right. Today, Shannon, we have something that involves a plane. So I am going to try and conquer my fear. There's no crashing. There's no awful thing that happens with the plane. Specifically, no one dies that we know of. Today, we are going to talk about DB. Cooper.
Speaker B: All right, well, let me bacilla yeah.
Speaker A: You got to strap into that first. You have a choice. Would you like to strap into the plane, or would you like to strap yourself to a parachute?
Speaker B: Um, can I do both?
Speaker A: Yes. Just in case.
Speaker B: All right, I'm just going to get it all over my shoulder, flip things, zip it. Is this a normal parachute, or is this a weird flying squirrel suit like they had on falcon, uh, in the winter? Oh, my God. Put on the flag scroll seat. Okay. Here I am. And then I'm also going to sit in my little plane seat, and I'm going to buckle it, and then I'm going to pull it low and tight across my lap.
Speaker A: Yes. Correct.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: All right. So almost 50 years ago, on the day before Thanksgiving, a man boarded a plane out of Oregon, headed to Seattle. In the middle of the flight, he flagged down an attendant and showed her the bomb in his bag.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: But this isn't even the most interesting part. That's my little blurb, like I always do. So let's talk about the beginning. Afternoon of November 24, 1971. A man approached the counter of the Northwest Orient Airlines in Portland to buy a oneway ticket to Seattle, Washington. He used cash, and he wrote his name down as Dan Cooper. He boarded the flight 305 and quietly sat in his seat, buttoned up in a black tie and white shirt under his business suit, and ordered a bourbon and soda. While waiting for the flight to take off, he was described as in his mid 40s, white, with a pointed nose and chin and dark hair. The flight took off a third full so with 36 passengers plus the six on the crew. So this is not a full flight. People are kind of sitting far apart from each other.
Speaker B: And is this a standard?
Speaker A: Like, this is an airline 727. So this is like a normal passenger airline that we fly. Got you now. Um, so the attendants did their normal checks and took their seats. And Florence Schaffner, the attendant sitting in the jump seat closest to the businessman, saw him looking at her. He reached into his pocket and handed her a note. She thought it was the phone number of a lonely guy because it happened a lot. So she dropped it into her nearby purse. He looked confused and leaned towards her and whispered, quote, miss, you'd better look at that note. I have a bomb. Can you imagine that? You're like, oh, this lonely dude, I'm.
Speaker B: Getting hit on again. And it's like, oh, actually, no, you might die.
Speaker A: Oh, um, no. So the stunned attendant picked the note out of her purse and unfolded it. She stated it said basically that there was a bomb in his briefcase. So he basically just wrote on a note, I have a bomb, and handed it to her. The man mentioned for her to come sit next to him. And so she fearfully did, because she's like, um, I don't know, you might not just have a bomb. I'm going to do what you say. He took the note that he had handed her, and she asked him quietly if she could see the bomb. Like, jeez, girl.
Speaker B: Well, okay, but also, this is what, like, the 1971. So I don't know what training was like back then. Uh, obviously it was a different world pre 911. But, you know, flight attendants are trained to go through crisis, whether it's like a water landing or, um, something's wrong with the plane. So maybe she was like, well, before we figure out what you're working with, because maybe it could have been just a mentally ill passenger who didn't you know what I mean? Open the bag and it's like a chain or whatever.
Speaker A: A chicken?
Speaker B: Like a rubber chicken or a real chicken? No, a rubber chicken. It's a rubber chicken tied up in a slinky with some duct tape, and.
Speaker A: You squeeze it and go, help me.
Speaker B: Because that's a different situation than a literal that's fair.
Speaker A: In my mind, I was like, you're being the bravest. Which, in truth, yeah, flight attendants are pretty dang brave. I mean, they're in a plane all the time.
Speaker B: You, uh, have to go to work on one of those every day. Why would I do that? Uh, you get to travel.
Speaker A: See, I enjoy that, but I crave the day of teleportation without losing limbs or my life or brain.
Speaker B: That would be nice.
Speaker A: I want that. Well, Miles, get working on that. You might just be a trained conductor now, babe, but you could you could do transportation. You could I believe in you.
Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. What if we're, like, in our ninety s and riding a train or going on an airplane are, like, vintage hipster things to do? Or sitting around telling our grandkids, well, back in my day, I would take the old Amtrak from Lynchburg to Newark, and they're like, oh, Grandma, that's so wild.
Speaker A: Snapped their fingers.
Speaker B: So, aesthetic, you rode a terrain. Wow.
Speaker A: Did you look at a MAPE as well? A mate. A mate.
Speaker B: Did you have a TikT Tiquet to quit? It is not that funny. But it is. But it so is. All right, continued. She asked to see the bomb. Where are we? What happened?
Speaker A: So, obviously, this man wanted to prove to her that his threat was good. And so the man acquiesced and opened the case long enough for her to glimpse eight red cylinders stacked four on top of four, a large cylindrical battery, and red insulation around the wires attached. The red cylinders. Just a lot of red. A lot of red, buddy.
Speaker B: Danger.
Speaker A: Yeah, I guess. He quickly closed the case and told her his demands. He wanted $200,000 in, quote, negotiable American currency, which we'll get into later, because I have no clue what that means.
Speaker B: Are you an alien?
Speaker A: Right. What does it even mean? Um, he wanted four parachutes, and he wanted a fuel truck for the plane when it arrived in Seattle. So he wasn't trying to divert the plane as it was right now. He wanted it to go to its destination, mhm. So at this point, Florence is m starting to panic a bit, like, no doubt. And the man calms her down, telling her that she should go tell the pilots his demands and that it will all be okay. And it soothes her enough that she gets up. This is your fault, buddy.
Speaker B: Okay?
Speaker A: So Florence calm down enough to get to the cockpit and tell the pilot and copilot what was happening when she returned to her seat, the jump seat. The man had put on dark sunglasses, which is like, it's a little late.
Speaker B: Budge.
Speaker A: He knows your face. I think it was probably one of those moments where he's, like, talking to her. Talking to her. She leaves and he goes, oh, crap. It's a pivotal part of my plan.
Speaker B: Every actor has had that moment when you're on stage and you realize that there's something you should have done before you came on stage. I just think we remember in 12th Night at the beginning of the show as Viola, I was a girl, right? I got sick, blah, blah, blah. And then I go and I put on go, um, put on boy clothes. And I was supposed to put my hair up in a ponytail like boys do. Yeah, I had those Luscious Renaissance Locks. You did. And I just remember sitting on because the next scene when I'm in my boy clothes, I'm sitting on the floor pretending to be, like, a servant. Dude, just, like, listening. And I distinctly remember looking down and I could see my hair hanging down, and I was like, I forgot that, uh and as soon as I came off stage, it was like, it might have been Malora or maybe just the stage manager being like, Cheryl and Malora said I was like, I know, I'm aware. I couldn't do anything because once you're on stage, you don't want to do it. Yeah, right. Like, they always tell you, don't touch your hair. Don't touch your costume unless it's like a specific character choice. So I was like, well, if I do anything now, it will draw attention to the fact that it was down in the first place.
Speaker A: Yes. And you've already said things, so it's not like you're just coming out and like, haha, I've just put myself together. No, you're in the middle of a scene.
Speaker B: Anyway, uh, he forgot his pivotal prop.
Speaker A: Of sunglasses to disguise his face, which at this point, it's like, already too late. Like, why even but whatever. So the pilot contacted air traffic control, who in turn let the local authorities in Seattle know what was happening. So over the inflight intercom, the pilot told the passengers that they were going to be delayed due to minor mechanical difficulties, which during your flight, saying minor mechanical difficulties is not all that's not minor there's mechanical difficulties on the plane while you're flying. That's not okay, so that's scarier than scarier than a bomb.
Speaker B: I'm not into that. I was like, just lie to me.
Speaker A: Tell me.
Speaker B: It's the weather.
Speaker A: Yeah, seriously, just lie to me.
Speaker B: I don't know anything about anything. Just tell me. Just lie.
Speaker A: It also makes no sense to say minor mechanical difficulties because the flight had to circle over Puget Sound for 2 hours to allow the Seattle police and the FBI time to get all of the demands covered and get emergency personnel together. So if you have minor mechanical difficulties, why would you be flying around for an extra 2 hours?
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker A: Who's having the m mechanical difficulties, the plane or the, uh, airport? Like, what better to just lie and.
Speaker B: Say it's raining in Seattle. You can just say, oh, weather conditions. We have to, like, we have to.
Speaker A: Take a couple of turns around, take.
Speaker B: A couple of laps, like you do. That's interesting, though, that they immediately were going to fulfill his demands.
Speaker A: Well, he does technically have a plane of almost 41 people.
Speaker B: Right. But I feel like in a lot of the television shows that I watch on CBS that are definitely geared for, like, 45 year old men and me.
Speaker A: And, uh, you you're a 45 year old man on the inside, aren't you?
Speaker B: I mean get off my lawn.
Speaker A: She steps to the squirrels.
Speaker B: Get off my lawn. Can't. What was I saying? Oh, I feel like a lot of the times in those situations, they tell the terrorists, yes, but the fact that they are actually working to gather the money. Instead of saying, yes, we will totally gather that negotiable American currency for you. And then when they land, they're like, swarms haha. We got you.
Speaker A: Yeah. But remember, this is passenger air flight is still fairly in its infancy in terms of security, and hijacking planes has only recently come to be a thing. Actually, after this incident, there were a lot of Copycats M, and there's just people hijacking planes with, like, pretend boss.
Speaker B: They're rubber chicken slingy. Yes, exactly.
Speaker A: Um, so the president of the airline approved the $200,000 ransom. I didn't look up to see how much money that is in today's money, but my guess is somewhere around a million, because this is interesting that it's.
Speaker B: The airline and not, um, law enforcement. Yeah.
Speaker A: I wonder if it had to do with the fact that it was, like, international Air or something like that. I have no clue. Uh, so at one point, flight attendant Tina Muklow recalls the man looking out of the window and saying, quote, looks like Tacoma down there, end quote. As they flew over Tacoma, he also correctly said that the Seattle Tacoma airport was a 20 minutes drive to the McCord Air Force Base. At the time, that was where McCord used to be. And now it's moved. Mauklow was surprised that he knew the area so well. And she also said, quote, he wasn't nervous. He seemed rather nice. He was never cruel or nasty. He was thoughtful and calm all the time. Which at this point, hijacking, uh, isn't necessarily common. But the hijackings that have happened before this are like men brandishing guns and being like, take me to Cuba and give me all your money, like, that kind of stuff. Um, whereas this guy sitting in a suit and tie like, give me your money.
Speaker B: That's it.
Speaker A: Please, or I will blow us all to smithereens.
Speaker B: But I'd rather not. But could you just give me some negotiable appearances?
Speaker A: Uh, just interesting choice of words, my dude. All right. So this man was polite, soft spoken, kind, and tried to keep everyone calm. He also ordered another bourbon and soda and paid his drink tab trying to give Mucklow the extra change. And she refused it. She was like, Keep it. He also offered to get the crew meals when they all landed in Seattle.
Speaker B: Dude, I don't think they're going to want to hang out with you.
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: I don't know.
Speaker A: Maybe this is just a gigantic ploy to make friends. But he has no clue.
Speaker B: We cannot go doing this. I know you're lonely. If we have it on the record that you're lonely, but please don't go hijacking a plane in order to I.
Speaker A: Would never hijack a plane. Hijacked maybe a train.
Speaker B: Don't say that on the record.
Speaker A: That's true. I wouldn't, actually. I have no reason to. But I have also no reason to hijack a plane because I hate playing.
Speaker B: This is true.
Speaker A: I wouldn't do that. Especially in the way that he ends up doing this. No, thank you. So the ransom was pulled together in $10,020 bills, which each were microfilled so that they had some kind of record of the serial numbers. The man also demanded that the military issue parachutes they had collected for him on the ground were to be exchanged for civilian ones so that they had to get some from the local skydiving school. Which besides a local skydiving school in Seattle. He wanted the manually operated rip cords on the parachutes instead of the military grade ones. Which have both a manual and one that at a certain altitude. Just like. Open.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: At least so far as I found. Miles, if you would like to correct me, feel free. I can say nothing with confidence on this. It was found later that of the four parachutes that they gave him, one of them was a dummy unit. Usable? No, it was unusable, but marked as unusable that any experienced skydiver could see was non functional. So I think it had like a specific symbol on it that told skydivers that this specific pack is unusable. It had a rip cord that didn't actually pull anything.
Speaker B: But why does that exist?
Speaker A: I don't know. I thought about that too, and I have no clue why it exists unless it's just it must be for you.
Speaker B: To show how to put it on.
Speaker A: Maybe and demonstrate this is how you pull the record without.
Speaker B: The flight attendants have their demonstration purposes like that.
Speaker A: That has to be it. I can't understand why else it would exist, but it has to be.
Speaker B: I would hope you would keep that one, like, in the classroom on the ground and not in the plane.
Speaker A: Right. They gathered this for him. The inclusion of the dummy one was accidental, so they didn't try to do that. But it must have been like a closet. So they're like, pulling these like the police want the police want these.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: But that's noted because it wasn't left over. He took the dummy one with him. But the reason they think that he wanted four was so that they wouldn't give him all messed up ones because of the possibility that he might take a hostage with him.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So I think he was trying to play the game, but interesting nonetheless. So finally, at 05:39 p.m.. The plane landed at the Seattle Tacoma airport. It was about an hour after sunset, and the man told the pilot, Scott, to get the jet to a brightly lit section of the apron, which I had no idea that that was what the, uh, asphalt of the plane where it drives.
Speaker B: I'm sorry, what? Uh, I thought there was, like, runway and then apron is separate.
Speaker A: It is, but it's like that part of the runway that is larger. So it's where all of them are. And then the runway is the space that they use in order to either take off for land.
Speaker B: Okay, so the part where you're taxiing between your gate and the actual runway.
Speaker A: I believe that is called the apron, but I have no clue that's what it was called. Thank you for muddling through that with me. Um, so Scott was told get the jet to a brightly lit section of the apron and then to close all of the window shades that potential snipers couldn't take a safe shot. Um, so he's thinking this through.
Speaker B: Smart.
Speaker A: The operations manager for the airport dropped off the knapsack with the money and parachutes by the stairs to Tina Muchlow. And once the man confirmed that his demands had been met, he ordered all of the passengers, florence Shaftner and senior flight attendant Alice Hancock, to leave the plane. So the people who were left were the cockpit crew, which included pilot Scott Copilot Ratts'nick rattansnick, I'm so sorry. And flight engineer Harold E. Anderson, as well as flight attendant Tina Mutclo. So he has all these people HM with him on the plane and lets everyone else leave safely.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: What were you going to say?
Speaker B: Just poor Tina.
Speaker A: Ah, I know, right?
Speaker B: Why didn't you take Florence? He talked to her first.
Speaker A: Right. I feel so bad, but I'm sure too, that after dealing with all of this, the likelihood that they were like, okay, we don't think that he's actually going to hurt us, is pretty high.
Speaker B: Right. Well, he's been very chill the whole time.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: If he's letting the other passengers go, that implies that if they just help him out, then they'll be fine. Yeah.
Speaker A: So the man was very specific about the flight plan he intended to take. So while the plane refueled, he spoke to the crew about what he wanted. And I copy pasted this from Wikipedia because it was so specific. Mhm, and it just seemed like the most concise space because the FBI space that has all this kind of stuff on it didn't give me anything that was concise. So here we go. From the mother source, a southeast course towards Mexico City at the minimum air speed possible without stalling the aircraft at a maximum 10,000 ft altitude. He further specified that the landing gear remain deployed in the takeoff and landing position, the wing flaps to be lowered 15 degrees and the cabin remain unpressurized. Copilot RA Tadsnack informed Cooper that the aircraft's range was limited to approximately one 0 mile under the specified flight configuration, which meant that a second refueling would be necessary before entering Mexico. Cooper and the crew discussed options and agreed on reno Nevada as a refueling stop. Cooper further directed that the aircraft take off with the rear exit door open and its staircase extended. Northwest's Home Office objected on grounds that it was unsafe to take off with the aft, uh, staircase deployed. Cooper countered that it was indeed safe, but he would not argue the point. He would lower it once they were airborne. This is all very specific.
Speaker B: He knows his way around a plane. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: So he definitely knows what he's talking about. And the fact that they had a little discussion, we were like, um, so we need to stop somewhere.
Speaker B: Where do we stop? Where do you want to stop?
Speaker A: Oh, Renovate.
Speaker B: Reno. Well, I love that the airline was like, um, so it's not safe to take off with a staircase.
Speaker A: Meanwhile, he's like, yeah, it is. But you know what? I'm not going to.
Speaker B: I won't do it when I'm up there. It's so simple. Okay.
Speaker A: Very odd. So after a vapor lock was fixed on the aircraft and it was completely refueled, the plane again took off. At about 07:40 p.m., two F 106 fighter pilots or fighter planes were scrambled up from McCord Air Force Base and followed behind the aircraft, one above and one below, so that the man couldn't see them out of any of the plane windows, which I think is very smart.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: There was also a plane diverted to the emergency from another mission from the Air National Guard. But it ran low on fuel and quickly turned around. So they were like, um, can you go check on this? Yeah, sure, I can't stay.
Speaker B: Sorry.
Speaker A: Bye.
Speaker B: Sorry, guys.
Speaker A: So Muckle was told by the man to stay in the cockpit with the rest of the crew and keep the door closed. As she did so, she noticed the man tying something around his waist, which she guessed was the money bag, and closed the door. So let's talk about the jump. So around 08:00 P.m., a warning light came on in the cockpit showing that the aft air stair had been activated. Copilot Ruth Neck got on the intercom and asked, quote, everything okay back there? Anything we can do for you?
Speaker B: This is the most polite hijacking of, um, all time.
Speaker A: And the man yelled back calmly, no, no, I'm good.
Speaker B: Homie. Thank you. You have a good one. Say hi to your mom.
Speaker A: Uh so the crew noticed soon after that that there was a change in air pressure in the cabin, which meant that the aft door must have been opened. So the staircase opens without the door being open. At, uh, 08:13 P.m., the plane's tail suddenly swept upward, large enough of a movement to require the pilot to take measures to bring it back to level flight. Because it was really sudden. It just kicked up and he had to maneuver it. It wasn't until about 1015 that they were able to land at the Reno airport in Nevada. When they did, the airstare was still deployed. All sorts of law enforcement surrounded the plane, from FBI to sheriff's deputies, as no one knew if the man was still on board. Like, they don't know if maybe he just decided not to jump. A quick armed search, though, determined that he had for sure jumped out of the plane. So all of his belongings are gone. He's gone and two of the parachutes are gone.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So now what? The FBI got to work on an investigation finding 66 unidentified fingerprints in the cabin of the plane. The man's black clipon tie.
Speaker B: Clip on. Come in. Wear real tie. Come on. Um man kind of haphazard situation.
Speaker A: And on this clip on tie is a tie clip.
Speaker B: I can't a tie clip. Clip on tie. Sounds like a tongue twister. Uh, I just love picturing him. Like, he's got his money tied around his waist. He puts on the parachutes and then he opens the door and the wind is like ripping it there. And then he's just like, I'm um, sick of playing this part. And he like unclips his eyes. He's like, I'm no longer business man. I love that.
Speaker A: I love that image so much. Also, imagine him getting ready to do this and he looks in his closet and he goes, yeah, no real time clipon.
Speaker B: Waste real time. I can't dramatically take that off in one fluid movement. That would help. No, too much.
Speaker A: Or maybe he thought like, if I get caught on something on the way down, make sure I don't strangle myself.
Speaker B: What are you going to get caught on? A tree. Tree? I don't know.
Speaker A: Bear?
Speaker B: I don't think if you land on a bear that hanging yourself on your tie is going to be your problem. It's like that guy that's like animals that I would pet for my own safety.
Speaker A: Level.
Speaker B: But they give baby bear such a booplebull nose. I will put baby bear the mama bear will not be pleased.
Speaker A: I really like that guy.
Speaker B: Uh, all right, so the clip on.
Speaker A: Tie is there clip on tie with tie clip. Two of the four parachutes, one of which was opened and cannibalized for parts. Oh, I don't know what that actually means. My guess is that they talk about this a little bit in some of the other articles I read was that he cannibalized it for parts, quote, unquote in order to strap the money bag to him. Um, because otherwise he wouldn't be able to keep it on him.
Speaker B: Right. It's not like they gave him, what was it? $200,000 in a fanny pack? Yeah.
Speaker A: No, they call it a knapsack. But my guess is it's like a duffel bag kind of situation.
Speaker B: You should have specified a fanny pack.
Speaker A: I uh, mean $200,000 in a fanny pack. What does that look like?
Speaker B: Just a very fatty pack. Several fanny packs. He just has like four fanny packs. I kind of like that. His hips don't lie. He like double stacks them on the tips.
Speaker A: Uh, he looks like full dad mode clip on time.
Speaker B: He's like on vacation. Dad. Uh, now. Okay, but when did fanny packs become like relevant, iconic? Were they around in 1970?
Speaker A: I have no clue. Three of fanny packs.
Speaker B: If you know, please write in.
Speaker A: Please.
Speaker B: Wait, now I want to know.
Speaker A: Oh, Shannon is going to look it up. So I guess don't write in, please.
Speaker B: If you have history about, um, the history of fanfax, what am I going to Google? Literally.
Speaker A: One of my very favorite things, and I read a couple of articles like this in, uh, grad school, were either articles or books about the history of menial things. So like the history of the pencil, m, and stuff like that. And I love that. So now I really want to know the history of the fanny pack. Oh, no. What?
Speaker B: All right, so first of all, shout out to any of our UK listeners who are laughing at us for calling it a fanny pack bumpeg. Right. Um, but there's a photo on this Wikipedia page and the caption is a person wearing a fanny cat. A person wearing a fanny pack stands with arms akimbo. What? Unlike somebody clearly had to practice their sat word. Right.
Speaker A: It's such a good word.
Speaker B: Uh, and then they specifically talk about the difference of the word fanny in American versus oh my gosh.
Speaker A: Although it does make sense because I have seen more people wear it on their front than on their back. Mhm, which if you wear it on your back, it's a bum bag. If you wear it on your front, it's a fanny pack.
Speaker B: There you go. Um, historically, the bag was positioned in front of the body so people could protect themselves from bandits. And then it talks about how old I am. Getting there. It's seeing one origin is native American buffalo patches, which were used instead of sewing pockets into clothing. Okay. So up to 5000 years ago okay. And then Europeans had medieval belt pouches. The Scottish.
Speaker A: Um, Sporen there you go.
Speaker B: Uh, the Scottish sporin is a similar belted pouch that survived because of the impracticality of pockets in a kilt. Why though? Because pockets are convenient.
Speaker A: No, kilts are actually just like, oh, it's one whole thing. And traditionally kilts would be the skirt portion as well as the sash, um, that you would use in order to hold over your head when it was raining or keep warm or whatever. But you still had a skirt, but you needed to be able to put that sash piece back around yourself. And so getting to pockets in that is difficult.
Speaker B: This segment brought to you by Emma Stint at the Scotland House in Williamsburg, Virginia.
Speaker A: I mean, yeah, if you need a kilt, I know where you can go.
Speaker B: There you go. Um, okay, but the information we really.
Speaker A: Came here for back to the fanny pack.
Speaker B: Sorry. The, ah, modern version was made from synthetic materials and it came into use in the 1980s and they were especially in vogue in the 1990s.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: But gradually their use fell into decline in the it says their use was satirized by the American humorous weird Al Yankovic in his song White and Nerdy I love him. So there's an unexpected celebrity mention for you if you're playing long on the bingo card.
Speaker A: Um weird. Al Yanko bitch.
Speaker B: This is such an extensive Wikipedia article. We do not need all of this. But do you need to know what is commonly stored in a whole lot?
Speaker A: $10,020 bill, $10,020 bills. That's what is commonly stored.
Speaker B: All right, sorry. There you go. You got a little bonus miniature on the history of the bum bag.
Speaker A: You're welcome. All right, where did I end that?
Speaker B: I, uh, literally don't know.
Speaker A: Cannibalizing the parachute.
Speaker B: Thought you were seeing Hannibal Lecter. And I was like, what? What kind of lecture ship? He pops out of the overhead compartment. It's like, comearies no. He says, Tina. Oh, no. Leave Tina alone.
Speaker A: Seriously, leave Tina alone. Um, so the fact that he didn't recognize the dummy one and cannibalize that for parts is interesting.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: He instead cannibalizes one that is useful and takes a dummy one with him, but he takes two. So he takes the dummy one and a usable one, right? And the thought is that he put both of them on.
Speaker B: Well, maybe he took the dummy one not for parachute reasons, but so he'd have parts on the ground. Because I'm sure like lost mash style. You could turn that into a hammock or a tent.
Speaker A: Oh my gosh, you're so smart. You should be a detector.
Speaker B: I read the book, hatch it many, many times.
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: Many times.
Speaker A: And yet you don't like camping.
Speaker B: God, no. He almost died so many times, he should be dead. That book is fiction. 100%.
Speaker A: All right, so eyewitnesses were also interviewed in sketches were developed at the man, right?
Speaker B: From the crew eyewitnesses.
Speaker A: Tina and Florence and Scott and, uh, Rata, who I still can't say your name. I'm so sorry. Um, alright, so possible suspects were compiled and questioned, one of whom being an Oregon man named D. B. Cooper, on the off chance that this man, who had bought his ticket under the name Dan Cooper, had used his real name, DB. Though, was quickly ruled out as a suspect despite his minor police record because.
Speaker B: He had an alibi.
Speaker A: He was like, yeah, this totally wasn't me, you guys. Mhm, however, James Long, a local Portland reporter, was rushing to meet a deadline and confused the suspect who had been eliminated with the hijackers alias mhm. The error was republished so many times that it just became part of public memory. So that is why we know this case as the mystery of DB.
Speaker B: Cooper, right?
Speaker A: His name that he gave was Dan Cooper, right? And yet we still hold onto it as like, DB. Cooper, which is so funny to me because it's very much like one dude was like, oh crap, I'm late, DB. And now it's just forever in our brain.
Speaker B: Poor actual DB.
Speaker A: Cooper, right?
Speaker B: He's like, Guys, it wasn't me.
Speaker A: So it wasn't me. I can't oh, I can't do it. So where did Cooper end up? It was hard to figure out a precise space to investigate in order to find the man dead or alive and or the money, because they wanted to at least be able to see if maybe he dropped it and then they can HM. Track whatever he had left with it, all that kind of stuff. Um, or at the very least have somewhere to start. Because the plane yeah, he jumped out of it. But where exactly? Any small difference in the plane's speed, the weather conditions along the flight path determined by location, altitude, and the like, and the amount of time he remained in free fall before he pulled the rip cord of his parachute, if he pulled it at all, can just completely mess with where he might end up.
Speaker B: Well, and he specifically asked for the civilian chute so he could be 100% in control of when he pulls exactly. The rip cord.
Speaker A: Exactly. So weirdly, neither of the error air Force planes flanking the aircraft saw anyone jump out or saw a parachute open.
Speaker B: I completely forgot that they were there. Right.
Speaker A: I did too. But there was extremely limited visibility at that point because it was night. There was cloud cover obscuring any light that could come from below because even though this plane is flying low, it's still above clouds. So, M, he basically went through clouds.
Speaker B: To the very cinematic right.
Speaker A: Um, so there was no light coming from below because it was covered by clouds. But he was also dressed all in black. So m, if it's not, you can't see that.
Speaker B: And he's wearing sunglasses, but no tie, no clip on tie.
Speaker A: Uh, and so the FBI decided, let's recreate it. So they had Scott pilot I did not expect that.
Speaker B: Uh what? Yes. They were like, we're going to survive, or Dream team this situation. We're going to do it like it's for real. Okay, people, this is not a drill. Oh my gosh.
Speaker A: So they had Scott pilot the same aircraft on the same flight path. And FBI agents pushed a 200 pound sled out of the open air stairs to reproduce the upward motion the flight crew felt at 08:13 P.m., which was determined to be the likely jump time.
Speaker B: That's crazy. The fact that one man jumping out would cause the back of a plane to so dramatically.
Speaker A: Yeah, but if you think about it, you know how, like, when you're on the highway and you're going like 75 were holding onto your steering wheel and you just lightly turn it in order to correct yourself, to make yourself straight. If you turned that even just a little bit more, you'd go off into like the median or something. Because that speed is what's determining how much of a correction you need to make.
Speaker B: That's true.
Speaker A: So I would think that that is probably why. But it is insane to think about also just imagining because they have to tether themselves to this plane in order.
Speaker B: To get out without falling out themselves. They're just tethered to this plane, pushing £200 out of it and holding on CrossFit. Get out of here. Um, I love it, though. Yeah. Well, I was going to say also, thankfully, I've never been on a commercial aircraft with, uh, any of the doors open. To me. I'm like, that's crazy.
Speaker A: But maybe yeah, but it's also unpressurized, too, because that was one of his stipulations, was to keep the cabin unprecedented right. So that nothing would get sucked out.
Speaker B: That's true. Sorry, I'm trying to see if there was actually any mythbusters about this that.
Speaker A: I did not even think about.
Speaker B: Okay. Now but apparently they say Warehouse 13. His rip cord is in Warehouse 13, which is cool.
Speaker A: It is. That is a TV show I just finished.
Speaker B: It is on you to watch it.
Speaker A: Well, it's on Amazon, um, prime, but it's through IMDbTV, so it has ads, which honestly didn't bother me all that much. They were no longer than, like, 30, 90 seconds. So it's not like it was that bad. All right, so the FBI fully mythbusters it. And with this, they were able to make an educated guess that Cooper jumped out of the aircraft just over the Lewis River in southwestern Washington, which, when he jumped, was having a heavy rainstorm.
Speaker B: Oh, that doesn't seem enjoyable.
Speaker A: So search efforts ensued above and below the Lewis River with agents and deputies searching large swathes of land on foot and in helicopters, knocking on doors and running patrol boats along the reservoirs to the east of the river. So they're basically taking a radius and going.
Speaker B: Okay, but even though I feel jumping, conditions wise, a rainstorm would be not ideal in terms of getting away. Rainstorm is good because it'll eliminate your footprints and stuff. Exactly. I guess the mud is, like, very deep.
Speaker A: And, I mean, it depends on how long he was planning this for, but he may have known this is a good spot to jump.
Speaker B: Right. Well, and if it's a river, maybe he has a boat stashed or an.
Speaker A: Accomplice and he does know the area.
Speaker B: Or, like, he can go further up or downriver without leaving footprints or his scent for dogs or anything.
Speaker A: Yeah, I think he really thought through.
Speaker B: This, but we'll get on.
Speaker A: They did all the searching, but they had no trace of Cooper or any of the items that he would have had on him. So they couldn't find any of the parachutes. They couldn't find any of the money. They couldn't find any of his clothing. They couldn't find, um, no sunglasses. So an aerial search was organized as well, going along the entire flight path, which was referred to as vector 23 and Cooper literature because there are people who will take this investigation in this case and just go crazy. Um, I didn't use too many of them. I think I only technically used one. Um, but Vector 23 is very the popular way to describe the flight class.
Speaker B: Cool. But also it's going to be the name of our next album for the album art.
Speaker A: Yeah. Vector 23.
Speaker B: Vector 23. Wouldn't that be good? Like indie album?
Speaker A: Yeah, and the songs on it are sunglasses, rubber chicken and a slinky fanny pack. Bum bag.
Speaker B: And $20,000 fanny pack. And also special bonus track, poor Tina.
Speaker A: Tina, uh, for the whole entire song workshop it really? Because that's gold.
Speaker B: Maybe we're writing two different albums.
Speaker A: Maybe. You never know. Is this the moment when we decide we're done?
Speaker B: You're breaking up the van.
Speaker A: Apparently.
Speaker B: You're making me pull off this club.
Speaker A: Um, that's the other song.
Speaker B: Another bonus track. Vacation dad.
Speaker A: Vacation dad.
Speaker B: We are so committed to our own bits. I hope people appreciate it as we do. I don't care.
Speaker A: I'm here for you.
Speaker B: Wow. I love you, too.
Speaker A: Okay, guys. Alright, so how did we get there? Vector 23. Sovereign two as. Vector 23 in Cooper literature, but Victor 23 in standard aviation terminology because Victor for V, um, code for seriality. There you go.
Speaker B: I don't know if that's what it's.
Speaker A: I mean, it's alphabet or whatever, but yeah. So Victor 23, but they've changed it because Vector is cooler.
Speaker B: Those are also some of my favorite, uh, tik tocks where people are trying to come up with things. They're like s as in Slinky.
Speaker A: H as in Hannibal Lecter.
Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker A: So objects found in trees or broken tree tops were investigated, but nothing relevant popped up. So this aerial search didn't produce anything either. Turns out that they were real wrong about where the drop zone probably was.
Speaker B: How? Uh, wrong?
Speaker A: Real wrong. Scott had been flying the plane manually in order to follow Cooper's speed and altitude demands. And so figured out that his flight path was actually farther east than he realized when they did the test, which was on autopilot.
Speaker B: I, uh, am not a scientist. Shocking. Spoiler alert.
Speaker A: Wait, what?
Speaker B: Shocking me this whole time. Come on. Now all the variables have to stay the same.
Speaker A: Mean, but in a time of stress, maybe he wasn't really thinking about the.
Speaker B: Fact when they're recreating the test, but.
Speaker A: He was also driving that plane, too, so driving the plane. Flying the plane.
Speaker B: Yeah, he was driving it, but I don't know, someone missed something with a pocket protector. Should have been like um actually, that was rude. That was a stereotype. I apologize.
Speaker A: It's fine. It's mild. I'm kidding.
Speaker B: We do have scientists that listen to this show.
Speaker A: At mine, we do.
Speaker B: We have chief archaeologist comcast who I.
Speaker A: Don'T think I almost forgot.
Speaker B: Uh, who I don't think would require a pocket protector, but no, he's too cool for that. Please let us know.
Speaker A: All right.
Speaker B: Anyway, we're real wrong. How wrong? Put that on the merch.
Speaker A: Yeah, real wrong. The wind direction calculations had also been wrong by about 80 deg, which is significant. This and other data suggested that the actual spot was somewhere south southeast of, uh, the original space near where the Wasugal River drained. Wasugal is my guess.
Speaker B: That sounds fake. That sounds made up.
Speaker A: Uh, sounds like something from the Muppets.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: It's probably beautifully Native American.
Speaker B: Probably.
Speaker A: But in tone, it sounds like something out of the Muppets. A month after the hijack, the FBI sent out the lists of the ransom serial numbers from the bills to casinos, racetracks, and other businesses routinely associated with large cash transactions. They also sent it around to other law enforcement agencies around the world in case he had skipped the country.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So there were no sign of the bills. No matter what they tried, rewards were offered for anyone who recovered the money. And in early 1972, the Attorney General released the serial numbers to the public to try and get these ransom notes found. In 1972, two men printed counterfeit $20 bills with the Cooper serial numbers on them and successfully swindled a Newsweek reporter out of $30,000 in exchange for an interview with a man they claimed was the hijacker. He wasn't. So this is a huge story for a few years. This is something crazy that they can't find this dude. Eventually, the Minnesota Supreme Court, specifically Minnesota, because that's where the Northwest Orient offices were, okay, um, paid the $180,000 claim on the ransom money in 1975 since the bill still hadn't been found. I don't know how that works, Myles. Please let me know. My guess is that because they basically borrowed the money from the banks for ransom because that's, uh, how that works in terms of law. But the hope is that they either recover the money or recover the person, and then the loan is forgiven or whatever. That because neither were found. They had to find a way to pay back the bank or the loan or whatever. So that's my guess. I'm probably wrong. Yeah, let me know. I don't mind being wrong so long as you tell me, because otherwise I'm going to believe it. On July 8, 2016, the FBI suspended the active investigation into the Cooper case to redistribute resources and manpower to more urgent cases. The fact that it had still been going yeah. Is insane to me.
Speaker B: I wonder if there's anybody who started their career and then they just like, we're on that case for their whole FBI career.
Speaker A: There has to be some what a good show.
Speaker B: That's the television show I want.
Speaker A: Just the DD cooper files.
Speaker B: Yeah, but how exhausting would that be?
Speaker A: It would be very exhausting to spend.
Speaker B: Your whole career on it'd.
Speaker A: Be single case, minute details. But, I mean, Paul Holes did it, and it's true. They found a Golden State killer.
Speaker B: It's true.
Speaker A: So maybe that was the hope. I'm sure it is the hope. When you get on a case that's unsolved, that you solve it. That is excellent.
Speaker B: You'd want to be the person, right? Especially when it's like an older case, right? Uh, yeah.
Speaker A: So regardless of the fact that the case has been suspended, the evidence is still being accepted, specifically related to the parachutes of the ransom money that may reappear. There is a 60 volume case file built over the course of the 45 years of investigation stored at the FBI headquarters in DC. There is also a 28 part packet of evidence gathered that is open to the public for viewing. And it's lots of paperwork, lots of testimonials, lots of like, we listen to this guy talk. Turns out that he had nothing to do with it, all that kind of stuff. But it's still, quote, unquote evidence.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: So let's talk about physical evidence. It's scarce, but it's there. So we know what he looked like. The flight attendants, both Schafner and Muffler, were interviewed the night of the hijacking in different cities and gave the same description. He was about five foot ten, £180, mid 40s, with close set brown eyes and what they called, quote, swarthy skin, which I think means he was like, kind of tan.
Speaker B: Uh, you have some olive undertones, right?
Speaker A: Maybe, yeah. So I don't really like Italian. I don't know.
Speaker B: I don't know.
Speaker A: Basically tans and the sunshine.
Speaker B: What's that like?
Speaker A: Right. I have no clue. Mother cries, cries in Irish, cries in extreme Irish. As for items left behind that we know we're his, we have the black clip on tie and the mother of pearl tie clip.
Speaker B: Fancy.
Speaker A: We also had eight cigarette butts. The butts have, of course, been lost.
Speaker B: Sorry, track number eight cigarette butts, eight cigarettes.
Speaker A: Literally lost.
Speaker B: Literally. Oh, my we're just writing an old school boy album, but only the title. No, we're not writing the songs. Any joking. Pete Wence. When? M you listen to this, I know you're a big fan.
Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
Speaker B: Just call us. You're more than welcome to use this concept.
Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, credit us, but yeah.
Speaker B: I require tickets, please, for forever.
Speaker A: Not just to that show, but for forever.
Speaker B: Yeah, for forever. What my lawyer said that's me. Yeah.
Speaker A: All right, so the tie and the tie clip were not announced to the public for almost 20 years after the hijacking, as in possession, probably because it was the only item of his that they had. Mhm and so in order to question people, they wanted to basically not tell anyone that it was a clip on tie. So that if they were questioning someone and they said, yes, I did it. All right, so what were you wearing? And they said, what kind of tie? Like, they would basically trying to get.
Speaker B: That out of it.
Speaker A: So that's my guess. In 1978, an instruction manual printout for lowering the stairs of this particular 727 were found about 13 miles from Castle Rock, Washington, which was within Flight 305 flight path that night. M so did he know how to lower this, or was he making sure he did it right so that he didn't die? I don't know. In February 1988, year old Brian Ingram was with his family, vacationing on the Columbia River at the beachfront about 9 miles from Vancouver, Washington. He found three packets of the ransom cash as he was on the river bank trying to help build a campfire. He was, like, digging for a campfire and just, like, built surface that just says money on it. Uh, the bills were falling apart, but still bundled together with rubber bands. So these bills were, like, loose, basically in rubber banded packets that he found. The FDI confirmed that the money was indeed part of the ransom. All still arranged the way that Cooper had received it. These bills were split 50 50 between Ingram and the airlines insurance, and the FBI retained 14 for evidence. So it wasn't 50 50. I don't know why I did that.
Speaker B: I'm surprised they gave the kid any money.
Speaker A: Well, I mean, he found it. There was still I know, but, like yeah.
Speaker B: Interesting.
Speaker A: Ingram kept these and sold 15 of them at auction for about $37,000 in 2008. Right. I bet you, though, when he told his parents this happened, his mom was like, that is your life savings now. This is what we're doing.
Speaker B: Don't be coming to us for college money. Right.
Speaker A: So I mean smart. Hold onto them. No other bills have shown up, but there has been potential evidence in the form of a, quote, decades old parachute strap and quote, that had been found in the area, as well as a piece of foam thought to be part of his backpack. Although I have no clue how that fits in. That was all it was described as part of the, um, backpack that has the parachute guide.
Speaker B: Oh, got you.
Speaker A: The theories specifically suspect profiling. So this is what the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have compiled of what we quote, unquote know mhm about this man. Cooper seemed familiar with the Seattle area confirmed by Muckle, and could have possibly been an Air Force vet, considering he knew where McCord Air Force Base was, which most civilians wouldn't know or think to comment on at the time. Either that or he was, like, an Air Force brat or something.
Speaker B: Right, but he also knew all the different wing flaps at this degree.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. This is a considerably risky way to get money. So the guess is that he must have been either desperate or wanted to prove that it could be done. So either he was just desperate, or he was just a huge risk taker and didn't care.
Speaker B: He was a Kennedy. He had the gene. Just kidding.
Speaker A: Agents also thought that it was possible that the man took his alias from a Belgian comic book popular during the 70s, which starred a fictional hero named Dan Cooper, who was a Royal Canadian Air Force test pilot, which first of all, a Belgian comic book about a Canadian Royal Air Force test pilot. It seems convoluted but enjoyable. But this test pilot took part in huge adventures and heroic feats, sometimes including parachuting out of planes. Mhm these comics, however, were not ever translated into English, nor were they ever sold in the US. So the man must have encountered them elsewhere in the world. So maybe he wasn't an American. The man could have been Canadian. Where the comics were sometimes sold no, not in English. And it followed with his demand for negotiable American currency, end quote, which no American would use as a phrase to extort money. I definitely wouldn't say negotiable. What is it? Negotiable as is the money negotiable? Or is the fact that it's American money negotiable?
Speaker B: Okay. Seriously though, given the exchange rate, if you were trying to demand money at this point in 2021, I'd be like.
Speaker A: Give me some British pounds, please.
Speaker B: Like 20,000 euro, please. Yes. Uh, because that's significantly better in the long run.
Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit more stable. It was guessed, because he had no discernible accent, that he could have been Canadian because of it. M it was also suggested that Cooper knew aircraft, like you said, and flying techniques. He chose this plane specifically because it was ideal for bailout escapes, because there was an airstare behind the wings. But it also had three engines that were placed high and forward on the planes that you couldn't get caught in them if you jumped from these aft stairs. He knew how long it would take to refuel the plane, which is just interesting. I don't know how long it takes to refuel a plane and that the airstare could be lowered during flight, something that even the civilian flight crew wouldn't have been made aware of. And it couldn't be overridden from the cockpit, so the light could turn on and say that this has been lowered, but they couldn't press a button and get it to go back up.
Speaker B: That seems like a bit of a design flaw.
Speaker A: Yeah, they have fixed that. That is no longer possible.
Speaker B: All right, that's good.
Speaker A: Yeah. It is disputed if Cooper's actual jump was basically suicide. It is suggested that regardless of his outcome, cooper most likely lost the ransom during his descent. But the findings of the ransom so far from the probable drop site makes others think that he dumped it knowing he couldn't spend it once he landed. Mhm so that's interesting to me only because thinking about how you don't dig that deep in order to build a campfire in sand, mhm, and this little kid found it when he first started digging.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So that means to me that this money hadn't been there very long. But then how is it degraded?
Speaker B: So nine years?
Speaker A: Yeah. So I don't know if maybe it just got shifted up.
Speaker B: Yeah. Like heavy rains washed away.
Speaker A: Exactly. I don't know. The M fact that it also was pretty degraded, too. The money was pretty degraded. If it was buried, why would it be degraded other than water? Because other than water, there wouldn't be any elements for it to encounter.
Speaker B: I feel like water. It's just paper.
Speaker A: Well, no American money is made out of cloth.
Speaker B: Oh. Mhm.
Speaker A: It's basically rag paper, which is made with water, which means that it's both water soluble and you can well, it's true.
Speaker B: You leave a dollar in your pocket and you put it in the wash, it just gets a little rumpled.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. M. And even at this time, in 1971, it was still being made with rag paper, as it is now. So the fact that I know that Cooper's clothing and his choice of time were very important, too. He chose a four day weekend to get out of the woods and get home and back to work. And if he decided to hitchhike, he more likely would get picked up in a suit and tie, which he was not wearing, but like a suit jacket and slacks and a white shirt. Um, than if he wore t shirt and jeans coming out of the middle of the woods, as well as hiding in plain sight at an airport and on a plane in a nondescript outfit. So he's super planned ahead.
Speaker B: Can I ask you something that's not really related?
Speaker A: That's fine. We went on a tangent about fanny packs, so I think we're good.
Speaker B: Sorry. No, it's fine. This is what happens when we have it recorded in person.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. We need to just conversate. Okay. So I have had this thought, this ongoing thought experiment since maybe high school.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: If you are driving along at night, or I guess at any time, but this lot usually occurs to me at night. Um, like when I was driving back from Richmond after we saw newsies that one time it was dark, it was late, I was very tired, and I was alone and I was driving. I had the thought of if somebody came out of the woods and they had blood on them, they looked injured, and they were like, help me, please. Somebody is chasing me. Would you let them into your car or what would you do?
Speaker A: Male or female? Um, not that it should matter, but it does.
Speaker B: I guess the female. Okay. Because that's usually what I think of.
Speaker A: Can I see both their hands?
Speaker B: Uh, I guess.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: I haven't gotten this.
Speaker A: Uh, my thought process is if I am the only person on the road, uh, that's an issue for my safety. So what I would do is I would pull over, but I wouldn't open my car doors or open my window. I would just pull over so that they had somewhere to sit and stay put. If someone was truly chasing them, then, uh, if they appeared, I would be like, hop in the car. Because then. That's true. However, if I am not the only person on the road, I pull over, I put my flashing lights on, and I pray that someone else pulls over with me and then I get them and reassess and figure it out.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: However, if this is not a female and it is a dude running out all bloody, I'm sorry. Bye, buddy. I'm so sorry.
Speaker B: I'll call my wife.
Speaker A: I'm so sorry if that feels sexist to anybody, but I just can't even go as a single white female.
Speaker B: As.
Speaker A: A single person, specifically a woman. I myself, I want to be as altruistic as I possibly can, but I can't.
Speaker B: I think even if you and I were in a car together, or even if it was like, me and a guy in a car, I would not be opening my car in the window. I'd be like, I'm going to call.
Speaker A: Exactly. That was what I was going to do.
Speaker B: Enough. And I've seen enough that I'm like, no, you'd be pretending to be a victim when actually I mean, that's a very elaborate ruth it is a very.
Speaker A: Elaborate rule, but I am too afraid of getting hurt and dying myself.
Speaker B: Better to be kind of rude and cautious and everybody gets out okay than to just be trusting and trying to be helpful.
Speaker A: And I feel like if we really were ever in that situation, my brain would go, that's not real, and keep driving. Maybe because I think we're thinking about it as a thought process. Absolutely, I would stop, but I'd like to figure out a way to get help for them. But in truth, I'd probably be like, that's a ghost. Keep going.
Speaker B: Wasn't that an episode of, um, Supernatural where they stopped to help this girl and then it turns out that she's.
Speaker A: Actually a ghost and it's on a loop? They have to keep going back to pick her up. Pick, quote unquote, pick her up.
Speaker B: And she's like, help me, help me.
Speaker A: And they're like, we can't like, you're dead, you're stuck. Like, we have to figure out how to make you unstuck.
Speaker B: And then they have to chase the ghost. That's like chasing her or something.
Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, it's a very gross episode. The fact that I remember the whole episode, though, is really disgusting. He takes apart things and people and animals. All right, moving on.
Speaker B: Sorry. Yes. You would be more likely to trust somebody or be willing to talk to them about hitchhiking if they were wearing a suit.
Speaker A: Unfortunately, yeah. But I mean, for those instances, appearances matter. And also, being a dude in a suit and being a dude, picking up another one is probably a different situation. But since I'm not a dude, I don't know.
Speaker B: Also, please write in or DMs your answer to my thought experiment of driving through the woods and a bloody hitchhiker. What would you do? I love hearing what people well, it.
Speaker A: Makes me think about Maura Murray M and, like, how many people passed her and the person who probably ended up stopping for her, like, in that situation as a victim, if that were me running, god forbid, knock on wood, like, running thank you. Running out of the wood's bloody from somebody.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: I wouldn't want to get into another person's car.
Speaker B: I don't trust myself to run that fast.
Speaker A: Shannon is like, I don't already be dead.
Speaker B: Because if you think about it if you think about it, I don't know in my scenario where this person's come from, but somewhere in a wooded area, you've had to escape whatever building or containment they've had you in. If you're injured, it's hard to do that. And you're trying to run through the woods to get to a main road. At that point, I would be desperate for anybody to pick me up to help me, or at least, like you said, to stay with me, even if they're not letting me into their car.
Speaker A: I think in my brain, I'm like, at that point, I would trust nobody. But you have to.
Speaker B: You pick the lesser of two evil. I'm, um, trying to think. There was some I can't remember if it was a movie or a TV show or even a documentary, but this girl, like, she got out of the house of the person that had her.
Speaker A: Is this the vampire?
Speaker B: No.
Speaker A: Never mind.
Speaker B: And she, like, ran away. I don't know. Maybe I heard about it on my favorite murder. I don't know. But she ran away, and then somebody in a pickup truck stopped to help her. She was like, oh, thank God. And then they took her back to the place, like, oh, my God.
Speaker A: It was the dude who had kidnapped her because she hadn't seen his face.
Speaker B: Oh, I see.
Speaker A: And so she was just like, help me, help me. And he was like, yeah, I'll help you get back to my kitchen where I have, uh, put you on an island.
Speaker B: Anyway, I'm sorry. That's okay.
Speaker A: It is interesting. Please do send in what maybe not even just your answer to that thought experiment, but other thought experiments, because I do like thinking about them. Okay, where was I? Oh, 2 hours later, basically. So the FBI thinks that Cooper lacked the proper skills for an actual skydive, particularly because he chose the dummy as well as one of the oldest parachutes to jump with while cannibalizing a perfectly good one to help hold the money to him, which they think that's just their guess of why he did that. Um, he had no wind chill protection, and it was raining, which is just bad luck, I think, on his part. But he could have possibly died during the descent because it was too cold that far up, and he didn't have protection against it because it's not just.
Speaker B: That it's cold up top.
Speaker A: It's also that he's falling. So he's catching wind and getting colder.
Speaker B: Well, and if you are not experienced, especially at a night jumping, you're jumping.
Speaker A: Into forests, skydiving and scuba diving. Diving, those most iterations, I suppose, in my mind, are some scary things. Mhm I would never want to be that far underwater, and I would never want to be that high up in the air. I think I'm good where I'm at.
Speaker B: I'm glad we reached that conclusion for you.
Speaker A: Yeah, I think I'm good where I'm at. All right, so the FBI has concluded, kind of, because there's no real evidence that Cooper probably perished due to his jump and likely will never be found. But we have a list of suspects. M this is a heavy lift lift. However, I'm only going to give you three of the most promising ones and the ones that I like the most, because the list is enormous. Mhm of the amount of people who have either confessed to being Dan Cooper mhm or who are suspected of being Dan Cooper, either by police, or by their family members, or by friends or by deathbed confessions. Uh, there's so many of them. So go to Wikipedia, to the DB. Cooper page, you'll find them. I chose three of the most promising because reading that entire list made my head hurt. So the first is Lynn Doyle Cooper, referred to as LD. Doyle was a leather worker and a Korean War vet who was proposed as a suspect in 2011 by his niece, Marla Cooper. LD had died in 1999. Marla remembered when she was eight overhearing LD and another uncle planning something that involved, quote, expensive walkietalkies, end quote, while at her grandmother's house southeast of Portland. The next day was the hijacking of Flight 305. Her uncles were out turkey hunting at the time of the hijacking, but L D came back wearing a bloody shirt, which he said was from an auto accident, which in my mind, I'm like, why would you choose an auto accident when you were out hunting turkeys? But maybe he didn't actually catch a turkey. And so he was like, I have to have a different alibi anyway. M apparently, Marlowe later learned that her own parents had come to believe that LD was the hijacker. She also remembered that he was obsessed with the Canadian comic book featuring Dan Cooper and had one thumbtacked to his wall. She did admit, however, that her uncle was not a skydiver or paratrooper of any kind. He did not know how to do any of that. An alternative witness sketch was produced in August of 2011, but it is not confirmed, as they have much more reliable sketches from the flight attendants. And this was from a passenger sitting behind Dan Cooper. Um, the hair described was wavy, however, like LDS. That's the end of that. So the connections are there, but there's no physical evidence tying him, and the money's never shown up in that family, anything like that. The next step uh, is Richard Floyd McCoy Jr. McCoy was an army vet who did two tours in Vietnam, first as a demolition expert and then as a Green Beret helicopter pilot. After service, he was a warrant officer in the National Guard and an active recreational skydiver. April 7, 1972, McCoy performed a copycat hijack on flight 88 55, a Boeing 727 with aft stairs like this one, and it was flying out of Denver, Colorado.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Although at this point, I think it's still the on board. He brandished an unloaded handgun and a paperweight made to look like a hand grenade demanding four parachutes and $500,000.
Speaker B: So he's up the ante even more. Panty pack.
Speaker A: I like that. He brought us paperweight was just like, this is a grenade.
Speaker B: Uh, no one will look closely.
Speaker A: No one will know.
Speaker B: You know who I thought of when you said that about a paperweight made to look like a grenade? Professor Ashbrook.
Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B: You're so right.
Speaker A: As a grenade. Yes.
Speaker B: He totally would have it.
Speaker A: He absolutely would. Anyway, well, there's a recovered memory of that class, if ever you go to college. And there is a class called the History of the Politics of Mass Murder. It's interesting, but it's a lot. It was also first semester, first semester, freshman year, honors seminar. Yup. Politics of mass murder. Thanks, Ashbrook. Anyway, he's brandishing this unloaded handgun and the paperweight made to look like a grenade. So obviously he has no intention of actually hurting anybody. Right. Which is good.
Speaker B: They don't know that, though.
Speaker A: They have no clue. But it's kind of like the bomb, because even though he brought the bomb, like he grabbed the bomb to take with him down.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: Like, you would think maybe the impact would make the bomb.
Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. I would not take the bomb with me jumping out of an airplane. Exactly.
Speaker A: So that makes me think bomb was fake. So once they landed in San Francisco's Airport, just as the other plane did, to refuel, McCoy made the aircraft get back in the sky and jumped out over Provo, Utah, which he had family who lived in Utah.
Speaker B: Right. They gave him the money, though.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: At the refilling?
Speaker A: Yes, they gave him the money, they gave him the parachutes. All of that happened, same as it did with the Cooper got you. However, he left behind his handwritten hijack instructions and his fingerprints on a magazine he had been reading while he waited. A handwriting expert later compared the instructions to McCoy's military service records and determined it with him. And they checked his fingerprints and basically confirmed it. McCoy was arrested April 9, two days after the hijacking with the ransom cash, and he received a 45 year sentence, except he escaped two years later with several accomplices by crashing a garbage truck through the Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary main gates, just full on barreled through.
Speaker B: Boom. Um.
Speaker A: McCoy was tracked down three months later in Virginia Beach virginia and was killed in a shootout with FBI agents trying to apprehend them.
Speaker B: Um oh, my goodness.
Speaker A: So he fully was like, I'm going out in a blaze of glory or something. There are a few hiccups. McCoy's age and description don't match, though I would argue that the description of his face is kind of close. Like, he's got a little bit of pointiness to him, but he doesn't look like this. He put the two and two together, and you're like, I can kind of see it, but if two people gave basically the exact same description, this doesn't seem like it matches. His skydiving skill was well above what was thought of Cooper's skydiving skill, and that's purely because of the things that he chose in order to where he chose to skydive all that. And lastly, McCoy was in Las Vegas the day of the Portland hijacking and in Utah the day after with his family for Thanksgiving dinner. And it's pretty well confirmed that he was not Dan Cooper.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: But a double could go with sunglasses, could go to your family Thanksgiving. I don't know.
Speaker B: What if you send a double to your family Thanksgiving? Imagine how that would my mother would.
Speaker A: Still feed them, but would be very confused.
Speaker B: Uh, all right.
Speaker A: Last we have Robert Wesley Raxtraw. Raxtraw was a retired pilot and an ex convict who was in the Vietnam War with the army. He was arrested in Iran and deported to the US to face charges for possession of explosive and forging checks. Okay? He already is a very colorful person. He's got a lot going on. A few months later, once he was on bail, rextra tried to fake his own death by radioing in a false Mayday to say that he was bailing out of a plane over Monterey Bay, California. He was arrested in Fullerton, California, on the charge of forging federal pilot certificates. And the plane he had said he ditched was repainted and found him nearby hangar. So he was on that plane when he called in the fake May Day.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: But he was just basically like, I'm.
Speaker B: Going to jump out and this plane is going to crash somewhere.
Speaker A: And they tracked him down.
Speaker B: They're like, hey, buddy.
Speaker A: Hi, buddy. You feeling all right?
Speaker B: Glad to see you made, uh it yeah.
Speaker A: Although RAX Straw was only 28 at the time of the Cooper hijacking, he resembled the sketch and had military parachute training as well as a criminal record. The FBI, however, eliminated him as a suspect after no direct evidence could be found on him. Granted, no direct evidence could be found on anybody.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Raxtro admitted to being the hijacker, but eventually admitted it was a stunt. Like, he had just pretended that he actually did it. And he died in 2019. So fairly recently, and now we have an honorable mention because this is the only thing that I knew about DB. Cooper other than, like, the basic facts, mhm, was that there was someone who claimed to be D. B. Cooper for weird reasons. So Barbara Dayton was born Robert Dayton and served as a merchant marine and in the army during World War II. After being discharged, she worked with explosives in construction and wanted to become a commercial airline pilot, but could not obtain a license. Apparently, the FAA rules prevented her, and it is suggested it was because she was transgender. Two years after the hijacking, dayton claimed to have staged the hijacking to get back at the airline industry and the FAA. So she basically was like, I wanted the money from them. I wanted them to give me what they had taken from me dressed as a man. So she cut her hair short and she dressed fully as a man. All that she said the money was hidden in a cistern near Woodburn, just outside of Portland, Oregon. Eventually, she recanted her entire story. And the FBI never officially commented on Dayton. They didn't ever really, like, they took her statement, but they never really took her seriously.
Speaker B: Uh, but it makes so much sense because she's a woman. She would only have a clip on tie. She didn't know how to do a real tie.
Speaker A: Well, she was male to female, so she might have known how to do a real tie. But she died in 2002, so we will not know if it were true or not. The reason, too, that she eventually recanted was because they said that the hijacking statute of limitations was still active. And she was like, oh, well, then I didn't do any work. And they technically, they didn't have any hard evidence against her, but they just had her word, and she could recant that.
Speaker B: I was like, never mind.
Speaker A: Yeah. So here's the aftermath. Multiple copycat hijackings, including the one by McCoy, occurred in later years, which resulted in the FAA requiring that the Boeing 727 aircraft have a device later called the Cooper Vein, which prevents the airstare to be lowered during flight. There was also the mandatory installation of peepholes and all cockpit doors so that the crew can observe passengers without opening the door. Earl J. Cassey was the owner of Skydiving School that gave the four parachutes to Cooper when he demanded civilian gear. Earl was found dead in his home outside of Seattle in April of 2013. So well after mhm, the death was ruled a homicide from blunt forced trauma to the head. The case remains unsolved, and officials don't believe that there is any possible link to the case of DB. Cooper as burglary is their proposed motive.
Speaker B: But still, did the FBI or anyone else did they look into records from area skydiving schools to see if anybody matched the description?
Speaker A: I didn't check that. That's a very good idea, because I genuinely didn't even think that.
Speaker B: I feel like you have to be very desperate and or very brave to attempt to jump out of a commercial aircraft, having never done any sort of so if you were going to do this, wouldn't you at least take a little Saturday class, maybe?
Speaker A: Let's just go around the room, tell each other our names and why we're here.
Speaker B: And then he was like, yeah. So, uh hi. My name's Dan.
Speaker A: Hi, Dan.
Speaker B: Thanks, guys. I'm, um, excited to be here. Looking to just get a little training before I take over plane on my next vacation.
Speaker A: Sounds really cool.
Speaker B: Everyone's just like, it's so funny. All right, who's next? Carol.
Speaker A: All right, go ahead. Hi, my name is Carol.
Speaker B: Hi, Carol.
Speaker A: Thank you. I am also here to buff, uh, up my M Skydiving skills so that I can go hijack a plane on my next vacation because M Carol steals jokes. All right. Lastly.
Speaker B: I'm so pleased with us, uh, other people. I don't care if you don't like it. Leave us a review or leave us alone. All right. What were you saying? We're so close to the end. All right, I have thoughts, too.
Speaker A: I have a line that says, uh, Shannon, what are your thoughts? But not yet.
Speaker B: I'm sorry.
Speaker A: In popular culture, restaurants, bowling alleys what? And shops in the Portland area and in the Pacific Northwest hold Cooperthemed Promotions and sell Cooperthemed souvenirs as well as hold a Cooper Day celebration each November in Ariel, Oregon that has been held every year since 1974, except for in 2015 when the owner died. Yeah. Um, but now I need to go that's on our road trip list now. Oregon in November, and then well, it will be September. We're going to, uh, mothman.
Speaker B: Oh, yes.
Speaker A: And then October, we can have spooky times and go see something spooky. And then November, we're flying out to Oregon to go to Cooper Day.
Speaker B: Okay, great.
Speaker A: Yeah. Cooper has been the subject of many TV shows and movies, as well as a 2020 documentary called The Mystery of D. B. Cooper about the case, which is where a lot of.
Speaker B: All of.
Speaker A: This new stuff popped up.
Speaker B: Ah.
Speaker A: It was rackstra. It was, uh, Barbara. It was like that kind of thing. Um, I've only seen the trailer. I didn't have enough time to watch the whole thing, but I'm excited to watch the whole thing. It looked interesting. I don't know how much more information they could have possibly glued.
Speaker B: Is it on History Channel or I did not check.
Speaker A: I'm so sorry.
Speaker B: It's okay. Well, I'll look it up and put.
Speaker A: It in the show notes regardless. In 1983, a 330 page book titled Haha was published by Signum Books Limited, claiming to have seven clues to retrieve the $200,000 in $20 bills. And the author was listed as DB. Cooper.
Speaker B: Yeah. However, DB.
Speaker A: Cooper was not the name that he used. It was Dan Cooper.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: So that in and of itself is interesting. And also, we don't have $200,000 in $20 bills in 1983. We have something akin to like 993,000 and however many because Ingram found them. Mhm so if this book is published in 1983, these bills have already been found and you can't find the full $200,000. Mhm so this book still exists and the cover is kind of cute. It's like a little cartoon. Um, I shouldn't say, obviously the guess is that it isn't actually written by the man who hijacked the plane or woman, Barbara, but it is interesting in and of itself because it kickstarted the genre of treasure hunting books. M there was a book when I was a kid that my dad and I were obsessed with and it was like, filled with all these riddles and these beautiful illustrations that had clues in the illustrations as to where these little medallions were across the United States. And these medallions, if you found them, you would bring it to the town that was within the space where you were like the town you were in. You would bring it to the bank on their main drag and they would have the insect or an, uh, animal that was built out of glass and gems and worth anywhere from $30,000 to a million dollars. My dad and I were obsessed with this for a good year and people had actually found these things. People had actually found these medallions. So it was real, and I don't know what has happened to that.
Speaker B: So since you had the medallion, the bank was like, we'll show you the fancy thing.
Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure it said you need to go to this bank specifically on the street or whatever, and then hand it over and it was in a.
Speaker B: Big bank deposit box and put back the medallion or something.
Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, sure, there was some kind of like, sign off thing. It isn't like you walked up and they were like, here you go, here's precious $30,000.
Speaker B: Oh, wait, they give it to you?
Speaker A: Yeah, it's yours, you keep it. Yeah.
Speaker B: Oh my goodness. I thought you just got to look at it.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: Oh.
Speaker A: You basically are on a treasure hunt.
Speaker B: Well, I think there was something similar.
Speaker A: I don't know exactly. There's multiple where there were treasure chests.
Speaker B: Buried and there's like at least one that's still out there.
Speaker A: Yes. And that was recently in the news. I don't remember the name of it.
Speaker B: But it was recently in the CBS Make US. I don't want to be the host because I want to participate, but get Jeff Probes in the off season of Survivor to host the show where we try and find these lost artifacts. Uh, it's like The Amazing Race, but with elements of Survivor without having to sleep on the ground.
Speaker A: Yes, it's great. It means that I don't need to eat bugs. Well.
Speaker B: I'll take one for the team if we have to.
Speaker A: Thanks, man.
Speaker B: Like the Temple of Doom.
Speaker A: I'll do the hype thing. Okay. Yeah, don't worry, I'd be there for you. I just am not allowed to read the map.
Speaker B: God, no.
Speaker A: We're already going left.
Speaker B: This is me on CVS.
Speaker A: All right, Shannon, what are your thoughts?
Speaker B: My thoughts? Do you want the kind of silly one first or the more like practical one?
Speaker A: Let's go practical and end with silly.
Speaker B: Okay. So if I were DB.
Speaker A: Cooper, imagining the clip on Tynow there you go. Oh, put on the sunglasses.
Speaker B: Good job. Thanks. I feel like because I love a heist sort of movie, I love all the oceans movies and things.
Speaker A: Excellent movie.
Speaker B: I feel like it would be the smartest, most practical way to accomplish this heist is to make people think you jumped out of the plane, but actually you stow away.
Speaker A: You were Tina Muckler all along.
Speaker B: No, I mean, the most simple way, which I'm like, that probably wouldn't work.
Speaker A: But.
Speaker B: I don't know how you would cause that weight distribution. But maybe you push a beverage cart out or something and you check the other two parachutes, uh, and throw off your tie.
Speaker A: That was in the plane.
Speaker B: Well, no, you throw it into the plane so that they think that you did a dramatic thing before you jumped out. Um, but then you, like, hide away in the overhead bins or something. And he said to keep the landing gear down. So maybe I don't know how you would do it, but, like, somehow that, to me, makes the most logical sense to stow away in plain sight.
Speaker A: You know what I mean?
Speaker B: To stay on the plane. Because then you're saying, safe. You're not jumping out of a plane in a rainstorm at night. And when the plane lands, yes, they searched it, but did they tear the plane apart or did they just look in, like, the passenger areas and go, okay, he jumped. Yeah.
Speaker A: I'm wondering how do you get to the baggage space?
Speaker B: Or, like, you stash did you have an accomplice? And then you stash, like, a runway crew uniform somewhere and do the thing where you walk out into the wasn't that crazy? Exactly.
Speaker A: My thought is that there has to be an accomplice. Otherwise, I feel like there's no way for him to get this done on his own. However, the money specifically, because the serial numbers are so precise, you can't use that.
Speaker B: Maybe it was maybe he wasn't even doing it for the money.
Speaker A: It was just for the middle of it.
Speaker B: No, it was part of an initiation process for some sort of spy ring.
Speaker A: Like the ocean's crew, and everyone gets a different initiation activity. Uh, so, uh, that it's not the same thing over and over.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh I really like that.
Speaker B: Write a book. We'll write a book.
Speaker A: He memorized the tummy shoot. What's the silly one?
Speaker B: Okay, so after Falcon in the Winter Soldier is done, the next thing to come out on Disney Plus is a series titled Loki. Because if you want Avengers endgame when they go back in time if you are living under a rock. But when they go back in time to New York, 2012, he's captured at the end of the original Avengers movie, but then the Tesseract gets loose, so he takes it and disapparates, essentially. And that's where his television show jumps out, because in the timeline that we know he is so that's how they're doing that. But in the most recent trailer, they definitely imply that he is posing as DB. Cooper. That's awesome. And I thought it was just people making jokes, um, in the comments of the YouTube video, but actually on the Wikipedia page for DV. Cooper. Um, in the television and film section, it says, in the upcoming Disney Plus miniseries Loki, what is playing terrifying. It's.
Speaker A: That was you raised me up.
Speaker B: It's the video for my Aunt Brand, but it started auto play.
Speaker A: It's the most Irish thing I've ever heard. Yeah, that was also for my grandfather's funeral, was You Raised Me Up on repeat.
Speaker B: Yeah. In the upcoming Disney Plus miniseries Loki, set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, loki is seen taking the disguise of DB. Cooper before jumping from a Boeing 727 um, and disappearing into the bifrost.
Speaker A: Oh, that's cool.
Speaker B: So the real reason they never found Jebie Cooper is because it was Loki and he got beamed back up.
Speaker A: Loki beamed back up.
Speaker B: But then when you were describing the sketches that, uh, the two flight attendants had described, and you were like, yes, he was relatively pointy, and he had, like, dark hair. I was like Tom Hillson.
Speaker A: I will say honestly, though, he looks more like Agent Coolson than he does like Loki.
Speaker B: I'm sorry, who?
Speaker A: Agent Coulson.
Speaker B: Coulson. Coulson.
Speaker A: Sorry. Why did I say coulson?
Speaker B: I don't know. He is pretty cool.
Speaker A: He is cool.
Speaker B: I love coulson.
Speaker A: Let me see if I can show you.
Speaker B: Oh, we're moving. We're on the move. So I guess we'll report back after, um, Loki comes out.
Speaker A: Yeah. So those are the photos. Those are the sketches.
Speaker B: Got you.
Speaker A: And then this dude, Rachel down at the bottom, which I don't think looks all that much like the sketch, but.
Speaker B: I don't think so.
Speaker A: It's just me. So my thought is that LD Cooper is a pretty good candidate, but the fact that he wasn't really a skydiver, either he kept it from his family, or he would have died had he jumped out. However, he was not the only one. There was another uncle involved. There was another man involved in that. So maybe he was the one who jumped. But there's no information on him, so I don't know. I don't know. In any case, as is with the nature of this podcast, we currently don't know for sure, and unfortunately, we didn't figure it out. Well, we kind of did it's. Loki. All right, well, that's it. I did it.
Speaker B: You did it.
Speaker A: Thank you, Christian. It was already on the list of, uh, Topics to do, but I figured it was good to do when someone suggested Jesse I'll get to Bigfoot eventually. I'm sorry. So many other podcasts have done it very recently that we want to have our own moment to shine because full superhero pose.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Well, friends, if you'd like to see any of the photos, go to our Insta. We gave you plenty of juicy little tidbits for our bingo card, so make sure you won, and we'll shout you out if you tag us. Thank you for listening, Shannon.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah. This is a grand old time, right?
Speaker A: You didn't get scared? No, I'm keeping to my promise, man. I already have the next few weeks lined up.
Speaker B: Great. I just feel like now there's just a ticking clock. There's an hourglass every week we get closer to the time running out, and, um, then it's going to be like this even be like, no, I don't.
Speaker A: Think I'll do another doll for a long time. Okay, I'm going to try my best not to do another doll for a long time.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: I might do another house because we did the Spooky Winchester house, which turned.
Speaker B: Out not to be that spooky throwing it way back. That needs to be on the road trip list, too.
Speaker A: Yes, well, there's a lot of places in California, uh, that are supposedly haunted, so we should go and haunt the ghosts. I have so many ghost theories, you guys. There probably is going to be an episode of all my theories about what ghosts are. All right, but we need to end this now. Thank you for listening. And remember, this podcast doesn't exist. Oh, my God. It works so well when we're in the same room.
Speaker B: Not a different room.
Speaker A: My gosh, I could not figure it out on board. Wait, what?
Speaker B: Now stay tuned for our special behind the scenes episode, minisode, uh, National Treasure.
Speaker A: Oh, that's right. National Treasure Park. Yes, it's stay tuned.
Speaker B: Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.